Paint not sticking to vinyl

[Signoholic]

Hi all, I have a problem, have always had this problem, no matter what I do I just can't get Sign Writing enamel, One Shot, Ronan. Old Keeps etc. to stick to vinyl, have tried keying it off and panel wiping it, but whenever I sign write on it and it dries it just scratches off, so I call on the many, to tell me how to do this?, reason been I need to apply part of a painted graphic on glass so need a steady base. Help? ha. ;)

[Chunkie]

Interested in this one as I just had the same problem and swapped it for a digi print in the end.

[dave parr]

We used to either use vinyl ink, which I'm sure you know about, or drip a few drops of lacquer thinner in the lettering enamel so it will bite. You'll get arguments about the later, always worked for me. Working on glass is a different animal, though. What I've found that gives nice flow and is tough, is add about a third fast oil size to the lettering enamel, but it does cut down the pigment of the lettering enamel. The up side is the adhesion and it doesn't need as much thinning.

[dave parr]

Oosp, ment to add these opinions.

Some guys will wipe it down quickly with alcohol first, as you mentioned, I think. Some will clean with Bon-Ami lightly, too. Vinyl ink is the best for vinyl -- like materials, and all. Nothing but nothing can replace getting glass absolutely clean. Bon-Ami, use it like the gilders do. Work up a lather, scrub it well, let it dry. If it rubs off with difficulty, it isn't clean. Do it again until the dried powder rubbs off with ease.

If you applying a painted vinyl graphic to glass, not painting it on the glass, go with the vinyl ink. Can you get that over there?

Just opinions.

[sentinal43]

have you tried eps primer
they use it on laminate to paint later on its a cleat liquid and it just might work not sure though mate

[Wayne]

Screen ink- but to heavy a coat with make the Vynull pucker up.

(Whatcha doin using Vynull anyways :))

[paulp]

I personally think its down to the new one shot formula to meet legislation. I never used to have any problems with it a few years ago.

[Signoholic]

Hi Guys, Wayne, I have just got a new Van, Its my mates 'Big White Frog' & it partially airbrushed, but adding more to it, one of the images as super imposed on the back, a wolf, but part of this graphic (nose) will be on the rear glass, which I want to retain for visibility.

I know if I paint & airbrush it directly on to the glass it will just sc r a pe off. So need to hand cut the nose section & airbrush this, probably wet on wet, but due to past experience expect it to just scratch off once dry. Maybe a translated way of Dave’s method might work, bearing in mind we use different terminology over here than the US. I think using screen ink will be a bind as I need to match the graphic. The window will be tinted limo black and the other lettering cut vinyl.

Cheers guys!

[Wayne]

AHARRR!.. Now I see whatcha mean.

Can ya not clear coat it with something more durable?

[Chunkie]

Why not just cover it with clear vinyl? Paint straight to the glass if needed and cut the clear slightly bigger than the graphic so it sticks to the glass.

[Signoholic]

Yeah Cheers. Only thing with sticking clear over it, is I can imagine it bubbling up over the graphic and lifting the paint. End result- a mess. You used to be able to paint on keyed vinyl with no problems as Paul mentioned, but now it just sc rapes off when dry, pretty much the same as painting on glass, the only other alternative been to match screen ink or paint in reverse on the glass, maybe I will try a drop of two pack hardener in the sign enamel, maybe that’s what Dave was meaning. This is something that generally needs addressing as its handy been able to paint onto vinyl, often needed when lettering magnetic’s or strait to substrate as often the base is vinyl covered. I’m sure we will adapt. Cheers.

[dave parr]

Pete,

I think you told me that you can't get lacquer over there, but if you are going to do the graphics with an air brush anyway, you can use the same paint used to spray interior lighted faces with a great certainty of success. Akzo Noble provides Grip Flex and Spraylat provides Lacryl for this purpose. There are UV clears that can then be applied over them. I just applied an air brushed logo last week to glass done with this method. Not so good for hand lettering, too thin. There are many acrylic polyurethane products that will also work, very similar to the automotive paints, with clear vinyl primers for adhesion. Grip Guard Plus from Akzo Noble is quite good. I like the way it flows from a brush, too. What are they using over there to paint vehicle bumpers? Hope you have something like this available in your neck of the woods.

Lacquer Thinner (very small amount) is what I thought you could try as an additive, to get it to burn in to the surface a bit. I'm afraid a hardener would make a mess for you by making the paint way too brittle -- no elasticity needed for the application..

[Wayne]

Dumb Question:
Whats the Vinyl thats used to digi-print onto?
Might that be more paint receptive than ordinary vinyl?

[Chunkie]

It's pretty much the same Wayne - you just need the right profile and you can solvent print to pretty much any vinyl.

As for te vinyl issue, why not get a can of plastic primer from Halfrauds? Maybe a light dusting of that first (it's clear if you get the right one) will be enough for the paint to grip to?

[Wayne]

Whats wrong with Oneshot vinyl primer in that case ?
( Does exactly what it says on the tin)

[Signoholic]

Yes I will give the Vinyl primer a shot Wayne, Once used it on a banner without joy, but maybe if I key the vinyl lightly, that will do the job, will report my findings. Cheers Lads. :D

[milo]

Hi Pete.
Was just about to say I'm sure we had some sort of primer you could wipe over vinyl before you painted it. Might be one shot, not used it for a while but will check what I have at work and let you know if its the stuff. Sticky blitter when you get it on your hands if I remember rightly.

Ian

[Chunkie]

Didn't know oneshot did a vinyl primer or I may just have suggested it. ;-)

Nice one Wayne!