Panel Swap!

[Signoholic]

Hi to you all! What do you think to all us guys here having some sort of a panel jam, the theme, something based around the site, although I have no idea as to how this will happen bearing in mind most of us are some what 5000 miles apart!!.. But im sure the ideas will flood in (I hope) So anything you can think of to help this happen, feel free to post.

[Wayne]

Never a Bad time for a Panel swap Pete- I'm in.

Well...it better be Hand painted.....and postable.....What about shop logos- and some ref to the site like....
" Hello my name is Mike Meyer (logo)..and I'm a Signoholic.???

[Signoholic]

Yes Wayne, was thinking some mass airmail panel swap, not sure that ever been done before on grand scale of say 30-60 panels ha ha & off course it would be painted Wayne, thats what a signoholic is! dont think a vinyl panel would cut it. the (Hello my name is Mike Meyer (logo)..and I am a Signoholic) sounds brill, right best get sorted then, any more ideas welcomed.

[bahumbug]

I'm game. It dosen't start getting busy here til the end of April. This is a good time of year for a swap. The topic should be fun and wonky, like humorous
whiskey and beer labels to go along with the "signoholic" theme. ie. 1-shot is never enough, Turps blended Rye, etc. :roll:

[Chunkie]

I like Wayne's 'Stand up and say you're an 'oholic' Idea.

Dunno if my work will be up to sending to someone but I'll have a go. If it's too pants to use, I'll burn it and post a pic! :lol:

[paulp]

sounds a good idea to me just finished one havn't we Wayne . Need somthing else to do.

[Wayne]

With all the great names flying round the site at the moment- theres gonna be some fine panels coming together.
No problem with Airmail Pete- I've recieved/sent many panels to the States and Oz..( customs are fine with..just send as " a painted gift ")

The thing to remember is if your random swap partners ends up being in New Zealand- they have the same cost to send to you too!

I love Rons label idea too, - From my expereince of swaps no matter how tight you make the brief there will always be a wide variety of results.

[milo]

Hi guys
Not done or seen one of these panel swaps before. can you post some pics of previous ones with the sort of sizes and material your looking for.
Are they all sent to a central point for distribution ?

Ian (milo)

[Wayne]

Milo- when were done we email a pic to the organiser- then all the names get put in a hat and randomly matched up- each, contacts the other and post your panel to your swapie.
Heres my panel and John Sargeants swaps for the last one held at letterville last year...

The theme was -Your initials...and a Cartoon/graphic, and the word SIGNS, and panel swap 6 somewhere.

My panel (WO) was about 12" x 8"- Johns' about 12" x 18"

We have just done one for another site- The theme was Biscuits- the site name and panel swap no1.
(I cant post my current swap panel till tommorow (coz its not over yet!- and I'm not allowed to show my panel too early)

[Mike Meyer]

I'm up for it......What's on?

[Signoholic]

Reet Guys, have got something up on the portal about the panel jam, will update it all later & link up to dedicated info block, with what happens next!

[Signoholic]

We are live. Its on, check the portal link, you might have to refresh signoholics. Do you like the caricature Mike?

[Mike Meyer]

where? What caricature?

[Signoholic]

refresh the site Mike! Click the link & do what you have too! Its their on the front page, you will see it.

[Mike Meyer]

I got it! I CAN be trained!!!!

hahaha

[Jillbeans]

I was about to offer to join in the fun, Cam...but that is about the most uppity comment I've heard in ages.
A panel is a gift, regardless of the talent of who made it.
It is done from the heart.
So I'm afraid one of my boring little panels might not be good enough for you.
Love....Jill
PS
Wayne, awesome work as usual.

[Signoholic]

Cam. Jill as outlined in the brief, all panels are to be painted- NO VINYL NO MASKS & Painted from the heart! Anything that doesn’t meet this criteria wont be entered into the jam. A great panel gives inspiration to whoever receives it, just as any painted panel offers respect to who ever painted it. Signoholics you both are just as every member of this board is, & Signoholics needs both your hidden talents for this jam, especially Jill, rest assured all panels will be beautiful.........

[Dewi]

I'm well put off by Cam's comments... even if I could paint, which I can't, I wouldn't want to enter if I was to be judged so harshly for having a go.

Bit disappointed in your reply as well Pete, I would have thought you would have welcomed new blood with open-arms.

Sorry if this is out of turn, but one thing that winds me up is an elitest attitude... are you all trying to say you didn't start somewhere? Is the rest of the sign community as a whole so far beneath you simply because they don't wield a brush? I have the utmost respect for those who can paint a sign, but equally I have respect for all signmakers, no matter what their skill set is.

Mind you, why would my comments make a difference... I can't paint my living room wall properly, let alone a sign.

Dewi

[Signoholic]

Hi Dewi, was pretty sure that my reply post was to welcome all new folk to the art of sign painting.

Vinyl as we all know is the expected medium for making signs, as it is readily available a lot of the design attributes are lost, only few folk respect this including yourself Dewi.
I wasn’t referring to any disrespect & was sure my post outlined that, as regards to Cam's post, I think he was just stating his concerns to folk that don’t adhere to the rules of the art. Signoholics was launched to support all brothers & sisters of the brush, old & new.

All are welcome here, the site is here to share teach & keep the craft.

[Dewi]

"thus managing to avoid trading for a diaper creation involving a moldy stale donut. That said, count me in and lets trade some NICE panels..."

Fair play Pete, but I'm refering to this comments made by Cam... a diaper creation? Lets trade some NICE panels? I suspect I know what he's refering to, and he's more than entitled to his opinion, but its not exactly constructive and welcoming to the newcomer.

The few who know me know of my passion for this business and the lengths I'll go to, and I fully appreciate this forum (as one of it's earliest supporters) is very much about the painted sign. I also fully appreciate the hard work and dedication it takes to paint something, having tried and tried myself, but the comment made above strikes me to be somewhat at odds with what your original goals were Pete... am I making sense?

I don't comment a lot, mainly because I do feel a little out of my depth when it comes to some of the creations I've seen displayed, but from a personal view point, even those who work solely in vinyl have something to learn about layout and design that can only be taught by those in the know... who better than those who have been taught the traditional ways, who have studied and proven themselves?

Been reading Bill Stewart's book, on about my 5th reading now, a book that can be read by anyone in the sign trade and they'll gain a lot from it... but as I noted with a friend the other day, he acknowledges new materials in the industry. It takes nothing away from the craftsman of old (or new) it simply adds to the tools and materials we can use.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not after starting some huge debate or anything along those lines. I'm just a little shocked at some of the things I've read which seems at odds with what I've experienced from meeting and talking to signwriters, pinstripers and other craftsmen (and women). I've no doubt one of those craftsmen will give me a good telling off when he reads my rant here, but as I say, just a tad shocked to see elitism from a community I thought was as you say Pete, sharing, teaching and keeping the craft alive.

Cheers, Dewi

[Chunkie]

I must admit that I hav felt out of place here too as I am a beginner in every sense of the word. Design, Layout or even traditional/painted techniques. That doesn't mean I haven't been welsomed. I see this place as a great resourse for those in the traditional world and those wishing to become part of the traditional world. Cams comments were out of order in my opinion but who am I to stop him having his say? It's a free world and he's entitled to his opinion. I am entitled to disagree with it too. :wink:

The Panel Jam was something I was looking forward to and gladly entered until the 'no masks ' rule was added. Ican't paint for toffee free hand but I can design and use paint to create a sign worthy of a panel swap. I'm not sure I am up to it now as I wouldn't think it fair to have a swap with a master and then hand them my piece of ****. :roll:

[Chunkie]

After making the last post, I went to a thread where Dave Correll says:-

...of course I used mask. On location, with all those outlines and a matte center, I would be foolish not to. In the 25 years I've been making signs, the one thing I learned is how to work smarter, not harder....

So why are masks not allowed in the Jam if such a skillful artist uses them day to day and it's an accepted technique? I have a good idea for a Panel and I am sure the person swapping will appreciate what I have come up with when they get the surprise add on that comes with it. I'm Saddened that I now can't offer the panel into the jam as hand painted, it just wouldn't meet the standard. :cry:

[Signoholic]

Dewi, I have realised from reading your post the remarks that you objected to were of a personal nature. so apologies for any offence caused to yourself and any others they may have affected. I would like it to be noted that members are welcome to voice an opinion on this site, but please avoid personal attacks as any such posts will not be tolerated by admin or moderators!! A little respect goes a long way.
The Signoholics community is here to support all sign professionals world wide, both traditional & modern industries with an interest in recreating the art form.

In view of Bill Stewarts book, I haven’t read “sign work” for many years, tend to follow Mike Stevens, I recently communicated with Tony Lewerey (signwritten art) who after finding out about the letterheads movement after he had published his book was both highly impressed & disillusioned that he wasn’t aware how creativity of the brush was so active & if he had known his findings, the book would of been written of a different supportive manner, more in keeping with the art form perhaps rather than supporting it as a dying art as many folk believe.

I’m not sure if Bills Book finalises in this manner, thus supporting modern sign making as the modern age medium.
In some circumstances I almost agree that main stream industry follows modern day sign making, most likely down to ignorance & I think that for us sign painters it is so frustrating to be at the back end of the craft.

I agree that if the fundamentals of good design are followed that it doesn’t matter how a design is created, although this site was primarily created for the earliest painting genre, learn the fundamentals of this & everything else will follow.

As outlined the signoholics community was created to introduce newcomers to an already international empire of traditional calibre sign professionals, with growing strength in members who do & will support any body with an interest in pursuing or following the movement, that as a fellow sign community leader (Dewi); you & others have supported signoholics from launch & I hope this settles your anxiety & supports your appreciation of the craft & the overall presence & demeanour of the signoholics community.

[Mark Fair]

I use paint mask in a lot of my work. I have never been a good off the brush painter like Mike Meyer or Dave Correll.

I came up through the ranks of bill board painters so I have always been a pattern painter. Does this make me less of a Sign Artist or Painter? I think not. If I have a pattern I am a good production sign painter.
I will be using pounce patterns for my panel. Let me know if this is okay before I start. As far as Cam's snide remarks, who really cares?

With that said, why in the hell can't we just have fun and paint, simple as that.

Life's too friggin' short.

have a great weekend everyone, I know I will.

[Mike Meyer]

I'm all over that Bubba....get er done anyway ya can!

[Signoholic]

Chunkie, like Dewi you have supported Signoholics from early launch & you are here to pursue your admiration in fine signage, I like you was overwhelmed many years ago by sign work of such standard & made it my quest to learn the art form and follow the keepers of the craft. You have chosen your career in the signage profession as this is your demeanour, the Signoholics community is here to ease your way into creative signage production, as you may of noticed by the many supportive reply posts you achieve, by no means Chunkie are you a new comer as is anyone else that has joined this site, we are all here to learn share & evolve.

The decision not to use computer cut masks for the panel jam is to eliminate the “colouring in by numbers” method, a method that may be used in some circumstances for ease by sign artists for a tool of production, this is OK perhaps in modern sign making, or for traditional specialists to compliment & ease job production.
Sometimes when learning hand lettering, tutors will allow use of tape when painting lettering, this does not teach you the basis of hand lettering, as does just doing flat signs. A old timer once said to me "you cant turn a van on its side". The jam RULES explain you can hand cut a mask for part of your design, this is something you could print from your computer, trace & hand cut, you could perhaps do a paint effect on the back of your panel then overlay your hand cut design, you will sense a lot greater achievement, doing things this way.
Hope you now feel at ease, GO PAINT!

Pounce Patterns or Hand Cut Masks are fine ........................

[Chunkie]

Thanks for that Mr Admin, it's cleared up a lot. I didn't want to sound ****y so i hope I didn't come over that way. Hand cut templates it is then!

Now where is that acetate?......

[Wayne]

Phew- Glad we cleared that one up..
I might be wrong but I read cam's post as a Hooray celebration of hand painted stuff ( at last) rather than the negative attitiude towards the craft that tends to come from some Digital signmakers.

[John Lennig]

hmmmm...faux coroplast with faux intermediate vinyl..no, to much work, maybe just a tyvek panel, low postage special rate style! :mrgreen: whoever he is??

BTJohnny

[davemcm]

Hi i'm new here and would like to know if a sign foam panel is acceptable?

[Dewi]

I'm about half way through my first Mike Stevens book... it's a good read. Keep going back to read Dick Bird's hand lettering book as well... have Wayne to thank for pointing me in the right direction there.

Don't get me wrong, it's brilliant to see paint-only work being produced... I'm fascinated by it... my only objection was just the attitude of some. Doesn't affect me directly or personally, but it does stand at odds with what you've got here... and its too good a thing to pass up if it all works out good.

Looking forward to seeing whats produced... are you going to post up all the results after the deadline?

Cheers, Dewi

[Signoholic]

I'm glad all is OK, yes Dewi all finished panels will be posted on portal, ready for a vote with 1st 2nd & 3rd prizes, if you click the link on the portal panel jam image all is unravelled their, hope to see your name too.

[campainter]

Less than a doen posts, and I've already ****ed someone off... that must be a record. :shock:

Look, I don't care what your panels are made of or what techniques you use to produce them. If you are a vinyl-only sign maker, cool... but be a GOOD vinyl-only signmaker; the world has all the hackers it can stand. :cry: If I have a painter's chip on my shoulder, it was placed there by years of seeing my hard-learned skills being devalued and marginalized. Then again, For the record, some of the worst signs I've ever seen are from a local nimrod in my little town who apparently wouldn't know how to plug in a computer.... ALL of his rubbish comes off the wet end of a brush, and it's some of the nastiest schlock you can imagine. :P It just proves that the tool - whether its a brush or a plotter - is only as valuable as it's operator.

Sermon over.

[Chunkie]

Lets not go as far as to say I was ****ed off. I don't think Dewi was either. I personally just get a bit upset if anyone devalues what I do. Currently I am a vinyl signmaker but I am working hard at that changing to mixed media. I have a true admiration for anyone who carried out the craft well - pretty much the same as I feel for anyone who plays with vinyl well.

The sentiment you just offered is exactly the same as I feel.

The format or media used is to some extent irelleevant - it's the peson using it that counts. :wink:

[Dewi]

Well, being blunt, I was ****ed off Cam. The one thing that riles me like nothing else is an elitest attitude in the sign industry we're all a part of... but I'll tell you what, your explanation to why helps to understand why you said what you did. Still think it was a bit much, and as you can probably tell, I'm not shy to voice my opinion, but if you're passionate about what you do, then second best isn't going to be your preference is it?

Not going to mention names, but a true gent visited me this week... a signwriter I have a lot of respect for. He gave me some sound advice without telling me any untruths... he was blunt, but diplomatic with me and he's inspired me to pick up a brush and get stuck in. I haven't picked up a brush for a while since I practised on my own for a period of time and became a tad disillusioned with painting... not least because I didn't take the time to listen to the people who were trying to help me.

If someone approaches you though Cam, and I mean this with respect, and says "I could never do that" it doesn't mean they're not intrigued... it means they are approaching you and are trying to break the ice... its a veiled compliment and what they want is some encouragement. I'm not suggesting you don't know this already, but in a world that doesn't exactly value the signwriter for being what they are, its easy to step back and essentially tell that inquisative person to bugger off and not waste your time.

Another signwriter, again, greatest respect for him, asked me the other day "Where would we be without those who pass on the knowledge?" He tells me stories about the days before the plotter, but my favourite of these stories is the fact that the he admits there were blokes back then, as there is now, who would give unconditionally because they knew if they gave to 10 young hopefuls, maybe 1 would take up the craft and prove to be a lifelong signwriter. Not saying you should give Cam, but whatever has disillusioned you, whatever has made you cynical of the people who are interested in what you are good at... it doesn't apply to everyone who doesn't have the confidence to ask you to show them techniques and chooses to break the ice with a simple "I could never do that".

Cheers, Dewi

[Bob Rochon]

Dewi I can wholeheartedly stand up and say Cam gives,

Not to single that one line out but I can tell you he spent a weekend at my home, taught me how to carve and showed me how to make money carving for myself. Not to mention the glass tips, the paint tips, design tips, I could go on.

Let me say when one possess the skills of hand lettering, those comments don't come across as threatening or devaluing. There is nothing wrong with being proud of having hand lettering skills, I am glad to see another site promoting it. It is a shame to watch it get swept under the rug as it has on other forums.

But then again just having the ability of using a brush does not a good signwriter make.

[Dewi]

I appreciate that, but maybe thats the problem... the internet doesn't appreciate the lives people lead outside it and the words posted innocently on an internet forum can be misinterpreted to change someone from a giving individual into an elitest... well add in your own word!

I'm not judging Cam, just pointing out my view point... at the end of the day I run a tiny sign shop in the north of England, its not as if I have a great effect in the scale of things, but I've got a big mouth... I use what I have.

Cheers, Dewi

[Mike Meyer]

Look at all the ages of us ......where are the youngsters coming from? Are there any teens or 20 year olds out there that give a Sheite about hand Lettering? I sure hope so! All the meets I go to, around the world, I see fewer and fewer. I have tried all I know to get more young people involved. I've know this Cam character for awhile and he's got a unique way of expressing himself. We all have been the screwball frorm time to time. I am no exception. I'd paint with Cam or any of you goofballs anyday, anytime, anywhere......under any conditions. Why the hell not......Do what ya love, Love what ya do....
See you at the next "Shoe Show!"

[Mike Meyer]

Will we see you in Wales Dewi? You have a lot less distance to travel than me and Cam do...we'll be there...Cam, remember last time we went over? DO NOT PACK AS MUCH BECAUSE THE CANOE WAS WEIGHED DOWN TOO MUCH!!! Bring CLARK BARS!!!

[Chunkie]

I'm not sure if I'll be in Wales but I am trying. I'm only 30 so does that class me as a youngster still or am I past it now? :lol:

[Signoholic]

I expect you to be in Wales Chunky !

[Chunkie]

Just down to how I make payment - I just mailed David to see if I can Paypal.

[Dewi]

Yep, couple of things to sort out but we're going to get in touch and book some places... Cal (my other half) is the painter of the family and she's really looking forward to going. My little lad lives in Wales, 8 years old and he's read about the meet as well... not sure if he'll be allowed to go though.

Cheers, Dewi

[Bob Rochon]

8 years old sounds like a good candidate for a young apprentice :)

[Dewi]

He had a go of pinstriping in December... his biggest problem is he's too much like me, too much talking, not enough painting! :oops:

Cheers, Dewi

[campainter]

Well, maybe I should just stay home and sulk... NOT A BLOODY CHANCE! :shock: I look forward to meeting all of you, even Devi, though I expect I may have to stand the first round to make it up to him. :wink:

[paulp]

He can't half sing though, his son that is, not Dewi.

[Dewi]

8) Oh he can sing all right... doesn't take after me with that one, I sound more like truck wheels that are skidding on gravel :oops:

I never refuse a free pint Cam :D Looking forward to meeting you,

Cheers, Dewi

[Steve]

8)

I never refuse a free pint Cam :D Looking forward to meeting you,

Cheers, Dewi

He don't buy em very often though Cam, Mike you'd better keep an eye on Cam what with notoriously hopeless sense of direction, where was it he ended up in Ireland a butchers?? :lol:

[Dewi]

Now Steve, I personally don't believe that 3 years is too long to wait to get to know someone enough to buy them a drink when you've only spoken to them face to face for around 2 hours in that entire 3 years... and I did buy you one before the bar closed. You have to understand that opening a wallet can be a painful experience, and then there is a risk of disturbing the delicate archealogy thats within it! :oops:

Just wondering though... as there will be quite a few Americans there... will any of them being doing those chores? 8)

Cheers, Dewi

[Mike Meyer]

chores? farm chore? Opening wallet chores????????

[Wayne]

Altogether now...." WHAT-CHORES!"?

[Chunkie]

JD and coke please Wayne.

Ha ha ha ha.

[Wayne]

Ya-ta-tda-da-.BoomBoom!

[Dewi]

See, see, I could have got Mike to say "What chores?" eventually... and mine would have been a lager... come on you English folk... there's an advantage to be taken, free booze on offer...

A golfer places his ball on the ground, it doesn't sit right... he's missing a vital component to start his golfing day, whats that little bit of plastic called?

Cheers, Dewi

[Chunkie]

A ball holder :wink: :lol:

[Bob Rochon]

No he left that at home:)

[paulp]

no sugar in mine Dewi.

[campainter]

In that vein, what color is never mentioned in a pub in Scotland? :shock:

[Bob Rochon]

plaid? :mrgreen:

[Chunkie]

Where are we all up to? I started my panel and it's going along great guns. I'm just waiting for something to go wrong as I alays have one thing that cocks up!

Is everyone leaving it till the last minute? :D

[Wayne]

er...YEP

[Chunkie]

:lol: Really Wayne, and after the last swap you did I thought you'd be so prepared for this one. :lol:

[Wayne]

at least it will be "fresh" :lol:

[milo]

Thats the reason I did not say I would do it when it first got posted, wanted to make sure I could find time to enter, did not want to let you all down. Got a sketch done before putting my hand up, now I've got to find time somehow. Started preparing it, have cut and undercoated so far.

How's everyone else doing or are you keep it under your hats as we say over here in blighty.

Ian